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 Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 6:43 am |
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Quote: Originally Posted by geo®ge This clip basically proves a plane DID NOT crash into the pentagon on 9 11, rather a missile.
http://pages.infinit.net/noc/pentagon.swf
You need flash to view this clip.
I watched your video, I must say someone spent a lot of time on it, and it is well put together.
That's about all I can say about it.
The video claims there was no wreckage at the site.
Photo # 1.
FEMA:
Photograph Category: Terrorist Attack
Event: Pentagon Explosion
Declaration Number: 1392
Photo Location: Virginia
Photo Date: 2001-09-13
Photographer: Jocelyn Augustino
Photograph ID: 4414
Photograph Filename: va_pentagon_0901_135.jpg
Plane Engine at Pentagon Site
Photo #2
Here is a High Res photo of wreckage Navy News
http://www.news.navy.mil/management...N-6157F-001.jpg
I ask you this.
If there was no plane then please tell me what happened to the people that were on the plane?
AMERICAN AIRLINES FLIGHT 77
American Airlines Flight 77, from Washington to Los Angeles, crashed into the Pentagon with 64 people aboard.
CREW
Charles Burlingame of Herndon, Virginia, was the plane's captain.
David Charlebois, who lived in Washington's Dupont Circle neighborhood, was the first officer on the flight.
Michele Heidenberger of Chevy Chase, Maryland, was a flight attendant for 30 years.
Flight attendant Jennifer Lewis, 38, of Culpeper, Virginia, was the wife of flight attendant Kenneth Lewis.
Flight attendant Kenneth Lewis, 49, of Culpeper, Virginia, was the husband of flight attendant Jennifer Lewis.
Renee May, 39, of Baltimore, Maryland, was a flight attendant.
PASSENGERS
Paul Ambrose, 32, of Washington.
Yeneneh Betru, 35, was from Burbank, California.
M.J. Booth
Bernard Brown, 11, was a student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington.
Suzanne Calley, 42, of San Martin, California, was an employee of Cisco Systems Inc.
William Caswell
Sarah Clark, 65, of Columbia, Maryland, was a sixth-grade teacher at Backus Middle School in Washington.
Asia Cottom, 11, was a student at Backus Middle School in Washington.
James Debeuneure, 58, of Upper Marlboro, Maryland, was a fifth-grade teacher at Ketcham Elementary School in Washington.
Rodney Dickens, 11, was a student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington.
Eddie Dillard
Charles Droz
Barbara Edwards, 58, of Las Vegas, Nevada, was a teacher at Palo Verde High School in Las Vegas.
Charles S. Falkenberg, 45, of University Park, Maryland, was the director of research at ECOlogic Corp., a software engineering firm. He worked on data systems for NASA and also developed data systems for the study of global and regional environmental issues. Falkenburg was traveling with his wife, Leslie Whittingham, and their two daughters, Zoe, 8, and Dana, 3.
Zoe Falkenberg, 8, of University Park, Maryland, was the daughter of Charles Falkenberg and Leslie Whittingham.
Dana Falkenberg, 3, of University Park, Maryland, was the daughter of Charles Falkenberg and Leslie Whittingham.
Joe Ferguson was the director of the National Geographic Society's geography education outreach program in Washington.
Wilson "Bud" Flagg of Millwood, Virginia, was a retired Navy admiral and retired American Airlines pilot.
Dee Flagg
Richard Gabriel
Ian Gray, 55, of Washington was the president of a health-care consulting firm.
Stanley Hall, 68, was from Rancho Palos Verdes, California.
Bryan Jack, 48, of Alexandria, Virginia, was a senior executive at the Defense Department.
Steven D. "Jake" Jacoby, 43, of Alexandria, Virginia, was the chief operating officer of Metrocall Inc., a wireless data and messaging company.
Ann Judge, 49, of Virginia was the travel office manager for the National Geographic Society.
Chandler Keller, 29, was a Boeing propulsion engineer from El Segundo, California.
Yvonne Kennedy
Norma Khan, 45, from Reston, Virginia was a nonprofit organization manager.
Karen A. Kincaid, 40, was a lawyer with the Washington firm of Wiley Rein & Fielding. She joined the firm in 1993 and was part of the its telecommunications practice. She was married to Peter Batacan.
Norma Langsteuerle
Dong Lee
Dora Menchaca, 45, of Santa Monica, California, was the associate director of clinical research for a biotech firm.
Christopher Newton, 38, of Anaheim, California, was president and chief executive officer of Work-Life Benefits, a consultation and referral service.
Barbara Olson, 45, was a conservative commentator who often appeared on CNN and was married to U.S. Solicitor General Theodore Olson.
Ruben Ornedo, 39, of Los Angeles, California, was a Boeing propulsion engineer.
Robert Penniger, 63, of Poway, California, was an electrical engineer with BAE Systems.
Lisa Raines, 42, was senior vice president for government relations at the Washington office of Genzyme.
Todd Reuben, 40, of Potomac, Maryland, was a tax and business lawyer.
John Sammartino
Diane Simmons
George Simmons
Mari-Rae Sopper of Santa Barbara, California, was a women's gymnastics coach at the University of California at Santa Barbara. She had just gotten the post August 31 and was making the trip to California to start work.
Bob Speisman, 47, was from Irvington, New York.
Hilda Taylor was a sixth-grade teacher at Leckie Elementary School in Washington.
Leonard Taylor was from Reston, Virginia.
Leslie A. Whittington, 45, was from University Park, Maryland.
John Yamnicky, 71, was from Waldorf, Maryland.
Vicki Yancey
Shuyin Yang
Yuguag Zheng
If there was no plane then I ask again WHERE ARE THESE PEOPLE?????
Where is the actual AA Airplane?
Do you mean to tell me that American Airlines is hiding an entire plene? And all it's employees, the hundreds of people that were there in the Pentagon all of them are lying???
I can't beleive that you would actually suggest that the President would fire a Missle into the Pentagon, to kill Americans, and also risk the security of secrets held within it's walls.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 7:56 am |
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Update:
If there was no plane, then explain to me how on Sept 14 Data Recorders were found on the site.
Flight recorders found in Pentagon rubble
September 14, 2001 Posted: 8:03 AM EDT (1203 GMT)
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Both the flight data and cockpit voice recorders were recovered early Friday morning from the wreckage of American Airlines Flight 77, the hijacked jet that slammed into the Pentagon on Tuesday.
Here's the Link
Do not reply with the lame "It Was Placed There"
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 4:50 am |
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Pretty animation though george, very nice.
Where'd you get it from?
Almost had me convinced until i realised I knew otherwise
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:51 am |
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I was at work across the river from the Pentagon when the plane flew in and hit, any suggestion that there was no plane is WRONG....
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:32 am |
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I watched the video and read the arguments posted to disprove this theory. First off let me say that I don't think that this missle theory is necessarily true. I haven't done enough research on both sides to make an educated decision but at first glance it really doesn't seem logical. But most of the arguments presented to prove this theory wrong are extremely naive.
First of all: "I can't beleive that you would actually suggest that the President would fire a Missle into the Pentagon, to kill Americans, and also risk the security of secrets held within it's walls"
If you think that the President really cares about American lives then you are kidding yourself. He has proven he doesn't by sending young American soldiers to die so he and his fat cat friends at Halliburton can line their pockets even more. Also, there is absolutely no doubt that if he were to fire a missle into the Pentagon, or even know about the missle before hand (which, again, I DO NOT think he did) he would remove all "security secrets" and other sensitive information from any area of the building that would be damaged. That is just common sense.
Next, in regard to the "plane" wreckage photographed at the site.
That wreckage could be a lot of different things. It may have come from inside the building itself (remember, this is the Pentagon, who knows what they have inside there) or even the alleged missle. So this evidence does not hold any water.
Next, "If there was no plane, then explain to me how on Sept 14 Data Recorders were found on the site...Do not reply with the lame 'It Was Placed There'"
Why would it be lame to reply with that? Because it is a very good and logical explanation and may just prove you wrong. This last part shows just how naive and ignorant you are. If there really were a conspiracy, you really believe that they would not plant something like this? Give me a break. I'll say it again because some people just don't pay attention, I don't believe this is necessarily a conspiracy or even that it was a missle, but I cannot believe that you think your government is always noble and moral. I hate to break it to you but you are lied to on a daily basis and you will always be, no matter who your president is. It would not be hard for people with this much power to plant something like this on the site and don't think for a minute that they wouldn't do it if they had to.
The only argument that you give that makes any sense is about the passengers and the plane itself. If it really was a missle, then were are the people? Where is the plane? It would be extremely difficult to dispose of that big of an object and that many people with no one else finding out.
Now there are eye witness accounts that support both theories so its hard to use any of those witnesses to support either without completely discounting and trivializing the others.
Could George Dubya do something like this? Absolutely. It would be difficult but he could. Did he or any of his people, in fact, do this? I highly doubt it. Its just not logical and, at least on the surface, there doesn't seem to be any apparent reason. Could Al-Queda fire a missle into the Pentagon? Of course. But if they did, then why would anyone in our government cover it up and make it look like it was a plane? To me at least, it just doesn't make much sense. That just my opinion, though. You should form your own.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 12:49 am |
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HOGWASH YOUR ENTIRE ARGUEMENT. Bush does care about american lives and you can see it on his face and in his actions. Sending troops to keep america safe proves he cares about american lives. What is worse, american soldiers dieing to protect us or American deaths as 911 here on our home soil? Bush could never do something like this. He has too much integrity and sole do be involved in this sort of conspiracy.
I would also add, if this were a missile, where are all the passengers and crew who died on this flight? I suppose they are hiding in an undisclosed location? Hogwash! Do we not always have all the facts from the government? Sure I will go along with that, as most people cannot handle the facts and the facts often will ruin operations or work toward actions that are for the greater good, although all facts in a democratic society will eventually come out. Are mistakes made? Yes of course as our government is run by humans who make errors. This does not mean they don't have the noblest intentions of doing what is right, even though sometime misguided intentions. Most people, even those in government, get up every day to do what is best for our country.
You still haven't mentioned anything as to why my argument is "HOGWASH". If you see genuine concern for this nation and its people in Dubya's face, then we see two completely different things. I see a man who is constantly terrified that he will be exposed for something. You have to look outside of what they tell you because, despite what you think, they are not noble people. Exactly how is sending our young kids to die in Iraq going to keep America safe? Give me one good reason and don't say WMD because its been proven there were none. Don't say Al-Queda because its also been proven there is no link between those two groups. I'm not saying all Democrats are noble, good people because, lets face it, most all politicians out there are in it for themselves and their actions are governed by "The All Mighty Dollar," your President has just done a worse job of hiding his real motives. If you think this war is about anything but Halliburton and oil than you are naive and are just feeding into what they tell you.
Oh yeah, and the reason they lie to you is not only because it will "ruin our operations" or because "people can't handle it." sometimes it is, but mostly its because THEY ARE CORRUPT and people won't stand for blatant corruption. Well, it used to be that they wouldn't, but now they will as long as its in the name of The War On Terror. Its has got so bad that Dubya might as well come out and say "I must pollute your skies and water or the Terrorists will kill you."
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 11:49 am |
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Quote: Originally Posted by Al-Chron I watched the video and read the arguments posted to disprove this theory. First off let me say that I don't think that this missle theory is necessarily true. I haven't done enough research on both sides to make an educated decision but at first glance it really doesn't seem logical. But most of the arguments presented to prove this theory wrong are extremely naive.
First of all: "I can't beleive that you would actually suggest that the President would fire a Missle into the Pentagon, to kill Americans, and also risk the security of secrets held within it's walls"
If you think that the President really cares about American lives then you are kidding yourself. He has proven he doesn't by sending young American soldiers to die so he and his fat cat friends at Halliburton can line their pockets even more. Also, there is absolutely no doubt that if he were to fire a missle into the Pentagon, or even know about the missle before hand (which, again, I DO NOT think he did) he would remove all "security secrets" and other sensitive information from any area of the building that would be damaged. That is just common sense.
Next, in regard to the "plane" wreckage photographed at the site.
That wreckage could be a lot of different things. It may have come from inside the building itself (remember, this is the Pentagon, who knows what they have inside there) or even the alleged missle. So this evidence does not hold any water.
Next, "If there was no plane, then explain to me how on Sept 14 Data Recorders were found on the site...Do not reply with the lame 'It Was Placed There'"
Why would it be lame to reply with that? Because it is a very good and logical explanation and may just prove you wrong. This last part shows just how naive and ignorant you are. If there really were a conspiracy, you really believe that they would not plant something like this? Give me a break. I'll say it again because some people just don't pay attention, I don't believe this is necessarily a conspiracy or even that it was a missle, but I cannot believe that you think your government is always noble and moral. I hate to break it to you but you are lied to on a daily basis and you will always be, no matter who your president is. It would not be hard for people with this much power to plant something like this on the site and don't think for a minute that they wouldn't do it if they had to.
The only argument that you give that makes any sense is about the passengers and the plane itself. If it really was a missle, then were are the people? Where is the plane? It would be extremely difficult to dispose of that big of an object and that many people with no one else finding out.
Now there are eye witness accounts that support both theories so its hard to use any of those witnesses to support either without completely discounting and trivializing the others.
Could George Dubya do something like this? Absolutely. It would be difficult but he could. Did he or any of his people, in fact, do this? I highly doubt it. Its just not logical and, at least on the surface, there doesn't seem to be any apparent reason. Could Al-Queda fire a missle into the Pentagon? Of course. But if they did, then why would anyone in our government cover it up and make it look like it was a plane? To me at least, it just doesn't make much sense. That just my opinion, though. You should form your own.
HOGWASH YOUR ENTIRE ARGUEMENT. Bush does care about american lives and you can see it on his face and in his actions. Sending troops to keep america safe proves he cares about american lives. What is worse, american soldiers dieing to protect us or American deaths as 911 here on our home soil? Bush could never do something like this. He has too much integrity and sole do be involved in this sort of conspiracy.
I would also add, if this were a missile, where are all the passengers and crew who died on this flight? I suppose they are hiding in an undisclosed location? Hogwash! Do we not always have all the facts from the government? Sure I will go along with that, as most people cannot handle the facts and the facts often will ruin operations or work toward actions that are for the greater good, although all facts in a democratic society will eventually come out. Are mistakes made? Yes of course as our government is run by humans who make errors. This does not mean they don't have the noblest intentions of doing what is right, even though sometime misguided intentions. Most people, even those in government, get up every day to do what is best for our country.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 3:02 am |
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Our government allowed the men and women stationed at Pearl Harbor to die purely to summon enough rage from the American People so we would enter the war in Europe. Germany was not a threat to Americans and Germany would not engage us because they knew if we entered the war it would be extremely costly for them. So FDR and others in his administration organized it such that we provoked Japan to the point that they had no choice but to attack, and we positioned our servicemen and their boats in a very exposed position to encourage this attack.
If our government was willing and able to do that in the 1940's, what do you think they are willing and capable of doing in the 2000's, a full 60 years later?
http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/2...7no12_facts.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/6315/pearl.html
This is a common tactic of governments throughout all human history.
http://100777.com/doc/91
These links are merely meant as stepping stones to open people's eyes and minds to the concept that at the *very* least, the Bush administration has not been honest with the American People, the world, and even other members within the government itself. There is a prior example of this in our government, so it would be an injustice to the men at Pearl Harbor, and the people in New York to *not* keep our options open and to seek out the truth if there is any reason at all to suspect there is more to the story.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 3:50 am |
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So go back up and tell me where is the Plane?
Where are the people?
You mean that Bush secretly met with the thousands of people that died in 9/11, and they were all in on it?
Give me a break....
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| Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:47 am |
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There is no way to know what happened to the plane. Just because we don't know what DID happen to the plane doesn't debunk the assertions that what we are told happened isn't necessarily correct.
No knowledge of what DID happen to the plane does not equate to proof that it really was a plane that hit the pentagon.
Considering prior actions taken by our government against American people, it is unreasonable to assume that the government wouldn't willingly put those people into harms way.
If you haven't heard of Operation Northwoods, it might further open your eyes to the movement that goes on behind the scenes and the proposals made by the people that YOUR tax dollars pay for (in this case, the Joint Chiefs of Staff).
This is a simple introduction into the concept.
http://larouchepub.com/other/2001/2...n_northwds.html
If you wish to read the declassified documents yourself, there are scans here:
http://emperors-clothes.com/images/north-i.htm
http://emperors-clothes.com/images/north-ii.htm
http://emperors-clothes.com/images/north-iii.htm
http://emperors-clothes.com/images/north-1.htm
http://emperors-clothes.com/images/north-2.htm
http://emperors-clothes.com/images/north-3.htm
http://emperors-clothes.com/images/north-4.htm
http://emperors-clothes.com/images/north-5.htm
http://emperors-clothes.com/images/north-6.htm
http://emperors-clothes.com/images/north-7.htm
http://emperors-clothes.com/images/north-8.htm
http://emperors-clothes.com/images/north-9.htm
http://emperors-clothes.com/images/north-10.htm
http://emperors-clothes.com/images/north-11.htm
http://emperors-clothes.com/images/north-12.htm
There is conclusive and consistent evidence of our government supporting or outright creating terrorist actions against the American People to achieve enough support for specific agendas.
Does this mean every terrorist action against people in the US has government involvement? No. But once the doorway has been opened, it can never be closed and it is every person's duty as an American to pay close attention and to raise questions when the facts don't match up. The premise of our country is specifically setup such that it is the *duty* of an American citizen to always question and challenge our government and the people we put in place to run it.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:56 am |
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BTW, pages 10 and 11 of the Northwoods Document might help answer your questions on "what might have happened to the plane". They deal specifically with the situation in question related to the Pentagon. Note that the Joint Chiefs aren't writing these proposals as pipe dreams, they are presenting them as factual methods they could use. Now add another 40 years to our government sophistication and it would be foolish to believe the same action couldn't happen again.
Furthermore, there is no reason to suspect that a document like this is unusual in the course of governmental affairs.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:46 am |
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Hmmm... I guess I shouldn't be suprised by your lack of response, hdmarketing.
I had hoped that by presenting proper evidence that you can research for yourself as well you'd be willing to engage in discussion, but from what I'm gathering in my short time on this board all you are willing to engage in is flamebaiting back and forth with people.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:50 am |
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Quote: Originally Posted by Al-Chron "So go back up and tell me where is the Plane?
Where are the people?
You mean that Bush secretly met with the thousands of people that died in 9/11, and they were all in on it?
Give me a break...."
You really show how naive you are in almost every one of your posts. You really do think that Dubya is a moral, good guy and that he would never do anything wrong. I never said that, and I also admited I don't agree with everything he does, but he is the best man for the job.
Quote: Originally Posted by Al-Chron After all that's happened in this country, after all the damage he has done to this country (and the world), after all the lies he repeatedly spits out in his incoherent rambling, it is astonishing to me that people actually believe his rhetoric.
John Kerry hasn't said a word yet that isn't a LIE.
[QUOTE=Al-Chron]It is terrible that this country is not crying out in outrage over his supreme aggrogance and his complete disregard and apathy of human life and well-being. No, no, no, you're right. He loves you and would never do anything to harm you. Yea and John Kerry has a petetion for Indictment for Violating the Constitution. Shame the Dems couldn't find a better candadite.
[QUOTE=Al-Chron]We'll see how much you love him when he re-instate the draft (which he is currently preparing to do, even a blind man could see that)[QUOTE/]
You just showed your intelloigence.
#1. A President Can NOT Instate a Draft, that takews an act of Congress which the President then aproves.
#2. It was the Democrats that tried to pass the Draft Bill, not Bush.
[QUOTE=Al-Chron]and you get sent to Iraq to kill people that never did anything to you. And no, they were not behind 9-11 and no they have no WMD.[QUOTE/]
Don't you pay attention? No one said we went there because of 9/11 except you Dems, and it was thought when we did go that he did have WMD. In fact Kerry said he stood behind Bush's decision to go in there.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:01 pm |
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"So go back up and tell me where is the Plane?
Where are the people?
You mean that Bush secretly met with the thousands of people that died in 9/11, and they were all in on it?
Give me a break...."
You really show how naive you are in almost every one of your posts. You really do think that Dubya is a moral, good guy and that he would never do anything wrong. After all that's happened in this country, after all the damage he has done to this country (and the world), after all the lies he repeatedly spits out in his incoherent rambling, it is astonishing to me that people actually believe his rhetoric. It is terrible that this country is not crying out in outrage over his supreme aggrogance and his complete disregard and apathy of human life and well-being. No, no, no, you're right. He loves you and would never do anything to harm you. We'll see how much you love him when he re-instate the draft (which he is currently preparing to do, even a blind man could see that) and you get sent to Iraq to kill people that never did anything to you. And no, they were not behind 9-11 and no they have no WMD. Remember when these were the whole basis of going to war? That was until these to arguments were proven wrong and then it became about "freeing the Iraqiis." They look so happy with their new found, force freedom don't they? Look at them rejoice at the presence of the U.S. Is that why they are continuing to attack our forces? Because they love us? If we are in the business of "freeing" people, why don't we go free some more people living under brutal dictators? The answer: they don't have anything we want. What a joke. "I wouldn't like being invaded, either"; "If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator" -George W. Bush. Do those sound like the words of a noble, just, moral, leader who you want running your country?
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| Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:53 am |
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Before I go pointing facts out, I'd like to say I'm not for or against the conspiracy theory...
There was definatly wreckage at the pentagon that is obvious. whether that was the plane or a cruise missle painted like a plane (so scrap would look lie the plane) I don't know.
There is also the identification process which was under taken. The DNA sampling and returning of the bodies to loved ones. But saying that, who knows where those bodies came from? If you take it from the non conspiracy side you'd say those bodies came from the wreckage at the site, if you took it from the conspiracy side you'd figure that bodies had to be found and anylised and must have been planted from the real plane which the government must have taken.
The problem with this whole discussion is that it can be 'explained away' from either side. If you believe its a conspiracy then all the facts can be skewed that way (government planting objects and such), while if you believe that there was no conspiracy then the fact can be skewed that way (disregarding certain eyewitness accounts, the lack of any mayor wreckage in photos and such).
Here are some facts:
- There was an attack on americans (from who? we don't know)
- The pentagon was hit by a large object
- There were bodies taken from the crash site
- Eye witnesses stories persuade either case (conspiract vs non-conspiracy)
- 'Black boxes' were recovered (whether they be from the same plane or not, who knows.)
- People died and some one is to blame.
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