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 Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 6:09 am |
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Quote: Originally Posted by ADBox Hey i dont care about bush or his administration. i dont think its that simple. im afraid of the illuminati. They say Bush or Kerry just not Kennedy . There is enough evidence already to link many government authority figures from around the word. The New World Order is a common term thrown about these days. Our government is using the war on terrorism to scare Americans into sacrificing personal freedoms for personal security. Eventually, if the terrorist keep it coming hard core, which they will, America will have snuggled its self in as a nice police state, as our Allies Great Britain already have.
This is all perfect as Iran happens to refuse to participate with the UN concerning WMD production. Their new president was involved in kidnapping and detaining American solders. North Korea is involved in the crucial 6 nation talks. China and Russia demonstrate their partnership and participate in war games. Al Qaeda is targeting Tony Blair. Congress is on Recess.
Ill tell you... if Politics was a soap opra on ABC... it would be something like this. We cant change the script, and if it doesn’t air... well then... I complement my imagination. Quit skirting the issue and answer me this: Where are the professional and detailed analysis by independent scientists and/or engineers that support your 9/11 conspiracy theory(ies)?
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 1:19 am |
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Quote: Originally Posted by Bushwacker we want the truth is that too much to ask
Why do I get the feeling you may make it sound so simple "why don't they just tell us, what are they trying to hide". And the reality is no matter what their answer may be, it still will not be good enough for a person who already has a propensity to believe conspiracies so easily.
think about it, if they say. We lost the tape or it was damaged you'll think "yeah sure, they are lying". Or they say, WTC 7 was easily blown up because NYC was at a stand still from normal activity and all emergency crews from as far away as boston came down to help with the tragety so we had hundreds of professional emergency crews helping us. you would say "like whom, give me names, how many came down, how come you never said that in the reports before". Do you see where I'm going with this, no answer or truth they give would change your mind cause it's already has a firm foundation on what it feels is ironclad correctness.
Also whenever anything happens to shock people, they tend to not get the story 100% correct. So if they said xyz happened which was 10% of their whole story, and 90% was correct but the 10% xyz was wrong ( when he said it hit telephone poles, noone asked him which one, or how many poles, I think its entirely possible the thing hit one pole which was in the parking lot of the pentagon and not the ones viewed in the picture on the street). And when they say it was flying so low, remember a plane is very huge, ever been underneath one flying low? Yeah it looks like its 30 feet and so close but its more like 100 or more feet. Ever heard of trajectory when a plane comes down.
Betamanmn... A person being more inclined then the average person to believe in conspiracies has absolutley nothing to do with Intelligence. Nothing, Everyone has a lens in which they view the world around them. Steven Covey in the successfull habits book has a whole chapter about this in his book. We all see with a different lens and what one person sees and what another person does can be totally different even though they see the same thing. We make different judgements and come to different conclusion about things because our lenses can be totally different.
And about the issue with the war with Iraq will create more terrorists is a perfect example of which lens someone may be using. The answer has nothing to do with intelligence and more to do with a prior belief structure , others will see it the other way around. I think to understand the middle east and the terrorist mindset is best to read Eric hoffers book "The true believers" written in 1951.
Speaking of conspiracies, the irony of this whole discussion we are having is that many of the problems in the middle east and many with a terrorist mindset to destroy the west have grown up in a culture that is so engulfed in the conspiracy mindset. I read a good book on it called "the hidden hand" by daniel pipes
http://www.danielpipes.org/books/hiddenchap.php
which hits the nail on the head with the middle easterner mindset. And he is so right, my whole life from my mom's arab friends they would always say "jews this , jews that, jews, jews, jews" (I'm refering to them talking about Isreal and just to clarify my family is Christian not Jewish). It's like what year and place are you living in?? 1934 Germany? Conspiracy beliefs are huge in the arab culture, just ask them.
Isn't that ironic, well I guess the conspiracy crowd on this board would probually say, the american govnt are the real terrorists Without even flinching. Not realizing the irony and similarity that view has with islamo fascist terrorist extremists in the middle east. Oh geeze now i've done it, No guys I'm saying your the same, just pointing out the possible similarities with that statement and their view, don't go balistic on that statement. Thats whats great about USA, we can both have extremist views but know we can still be good neighbors.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 8:04 am |
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Ah, we all thank you saved by mom, or soon to be saved by breast cancer bill mom. Ok, alright good to see ya. Lifetime tv the hate male tv station loves your petition, thanxs for your comments. I guess discussion about conspiracies and the 2 twin towers made you think how they must represent 2 breasts in someway. Hey no that's not it, no the feminists groups like NOW and lifetime joined forces to destroy the two phallic symbols in the center of NYC because they represented male power and dominance in society. WOW!! why did I and all the conspiracy thinkers miss that angle, thanx for the new insight. Now I know who brought down the WTC towers I shall alert the media!!!!
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:16 am |
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Quote: Originally Posted by rtf Quit skirting the issue and answer me this: Where are the professional and detailed analysis by independent scientists and/or engineers that support your 9/11 conspiracy theory(ies)?
HAHAHAHA u think that will EVER happen. NO. We will NEVER know the truth bc they will not let "independent scientists and/or engineers that support your 9/11 conspiracy theory" get slightly close to revealign them. They will see out their plan... protect it at all cost. They have the money and power and smarts to do it. The only "independent scientists" who will come in reach of the truth (whatever that is) are forum junkies and conspiracy theorist. They are close right now. Keep digging.
Maybe the two guys from myth busters can record a private episode in my garage and then we can air it without knowledge of the Media or TV station owners... thats about our only shot.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 6:40 am |
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Hey,
I read your msgs and I believe there's no conpiracy
about this Pentagon issue.
The conspiracy is:
What is the reason for the Iraq war? The real reason!?
Why are Americans still being killed daily?
Don't we love them enough to call them back home???!!!
How much more money do we need to GIVE to the
defense 'mechanism' before it is wealthy enough to declare
itself obsolete and get off the stage for good?
What is the ultimate form/shape of GREED ...???!!!
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:28 am |
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Looks like the moderator took off the post made by savedbymom who was trying to elict donations for breast cancer research. If anyone is wondering "what the heck?" about my previous post. The savedbymom post has dissapeared and I was just responding to it.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:50 am |
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Quote: Originally Posted by UKPaul Hi guys and gals I'm from the UK and I'm new to the board.
After reading through I felt like sending a post.
I feel for quite a while now the USA have been trying to control the world, and this is not down to the USA way of life which I love or the people in it who I find most to be very nice people...
it is to do with a very corrupt government, the CIA are the biggest Mafia there is.
I do not think its worth looking to much into the conspiracy theorise of all the 9/11 attacks ...so on... IF they are true, they will be made to keep people guessing, which makes them "theories", they would have done enough to cover them self's, you can be sure of that....
I do think the CIA new of the 9/11 plot and let it happen with cameras ready, The perfect excuse to begin a war, to frighten the public and to blind them.
the big one! the ticket to begin their campaign.
The fact of the matter is 9/11 was attacked before a bunch of crazy men where trying to stop the USA from supporting Israel. and Bush new about it long before it went off..... and it was not an Attack on the West, it was an attack on the finance of the USA which supports there enemy Israel.
THEN, all of a sudden thousands are slaughtered in Afghanistan...then Iraq, with what outcome? the USA having control over these countries, and they will not be the last. and every time a bomb goes off in the USA, UK, so on.... and your president talks of War on Terror, it is nothing more than another way of telling you that if you do not support them, they may well let someone else they have pissed off blow you up..... the only value a USA citisan has over an Iraqie one is the USA one is paying USA tax! .. full stop!
The terrorists are very stupid for falling for it, Bush wants them to attack, so he can go and slaughter more of there people with a story to back it up. the USA is being controlled and manipulated by a corrupt govenment that was not even voted in!, if you all fight against Bush you know there is more chance of more bombs... only because it would be his wishes though, treating you guys no better than the Iraqis....as for us guys, Blair is just been handed the instructions and had to find the words to keep us guys happy, these people have got control all over the place!
If you have 45 mins to spare check this clip out (im sorry if it has already been posted)
http://www.archive.org/download/Ill...lluminazibb.wmv
but it hits the spot, and its very sad that such a great country like the USA are in the possession its in.
The Bush Family have all been linked to the Nazis, and there actions are slowly revealing they are not much different....sending out lower class USA citizens to the front line, killing them along with thousands of innocent Arabs...
no weapons found, no stop to terror, just thousands of inocent good people slaughterd
Bush is apart of a VERY evil group who are slowly trying to take over the world! and dont think its to bring peace!, NEW WORLD ORDER!!...
have you ever stopped in your tracks and thought what "NEW WORLD ORDER" means??? that was Hitler's Plan, he wanted to start the New World Order!
it is the Nazi Dream!...... ID cards on there way!...new terrorism laws so they can do what they like. Freaky times!!
all I can say is its the people! who are the only ones who can win this war, stay strong!
Ahh CIA envy. You can't beat them so try to beat them down. It is a shame though that when you are the most successful country in the world there are always those who are jealous and try to beat you down.
Now get this clear you leftists... The U.S. is not trying to control the world. The U.S. is looking out for its own best interest as every country does. Is this wrong? No! It would be wrong to let others tell us what is best for us as you Europeans like to do, even though you cannot even handle your own affairs. Get your own house in order before you preach to the freest, strongest nation on this planet.
Hmm I am sure it was Bush and the CIA who bombed London too? Perhaps it was the corrupt Blair government? The sad thing is people like you like to shift blame away from the true criminals, terrorists. The only way to solve a problem is to acknowledge the root cause of that problem. In this case it is not the U.S. though it is the U.S. giving lives to solve this problem. To even suggest Bush knew about 911 before it occurred is naive and shows ones true hate for the Bush government.. a hate that defies reason and logic.
Hmmm you seem to imply we started this war and slaughter. This is the same old leftist propaganda. We did not start this war, but we will end it. We took terrorists hitting us too long (granted mostly oversees) and did nothing. Go sit in your chicken hole and whine about how the mighty U.S. is finally making progress against terrorism, something Britain is finally coming to grips with a need to do internally. I must say they have been wise (at least Blair has) about the true cause being in the Middle East and helping us out there. We do owe the Brits for sticking by our side there. But really it is so naive stating Bush started this and Bush wants to slaughter people. I really pity you for your blind filled hate.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:33 am |
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[QUOTE=rtf]I don't believe there is a 9/11 conspiracy that the government is perpetrating and no video clip produced, unless doctored, can convince a logical thinking person otherwise. Now if anyone can produce offical U.S. government documents stating complicity, then I might believe. If the U.S. government is guilty of anything, it's probably the fact that so many warning signs were ignored (intentionally or otherwise) during the summer of '01. If the information was intentionally ignored, then I can see a problem. However, there isn't much discussion whether or not the Congressional hearings on 9/11 produced any such evidence.[QUOTE=rtf]
You are so right RTF. The simple fact is a conspiracy of that magnitude as 911 would have required so many people that documents would eventually have come out and people would talk. It is truly naive to think this is a conspiracy. The fact is people who call this conspiracy are not considering the facts and desire it to be a conspiracy. Why? Perhaps it makes life more interesting to them. I am all for over active imaginations, just not when it aids our enemies or disrespects the dead. Unfortunately this leads them to be compliant with the terrorists as what the terrorists love is our own people blaming ourselves. This makes the left and conspiracy theorists almost as dangerous as the terrorists. It is a danger of naivety.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:57 am |
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Quote: Originally Posted by rtf Maybe the government needs to do more analysis to clarify some key moments on what transpired during and after the 9/11 attacks, rather than misinforming the public. Much of the information that was reported initially during the first hours of the attacks was misstated or misinterpreted by the media. Only in hindsight have we been able to discern what really had happened. This process is still being refined, so we may not have a clear picture for many more years to come.
It's more common sense to believe that a plane as large as a Boeing 757 didn't create any more damage than what actually occured. The Pentagon is a hardened military building with reinforced concrete.
The plane did not merely "tap" the building. What can be seen is the aluminum nose of the plane making a high velocity impact upon the building's face transferring considerable kinetic energy for an instant resulting in a flash of light. Aluminum and magnesium are two metals which will burn at a relatively low temperature.
I'm not a fan of the Bush administration either, but it seems the pre-disposition to believing in a 9/11 conspiracy theory is fueled by a fanatical anti-Bush crowd that refuses to accept any logical explanation of events of 9/11. Most of these people are armchair theorists who have no educational credentials to support their "so-called" scientific analysis and therefore base their conclusions on videos and photographs that can be interpreted to their liking as well as misstated facts by the media initially reported during the first few weeks after 9/11. I haven't seen any professional and detailed analysis by scientists or engineers that would corroborate anything conspiracy theorists have stated.
So I suppose the 1993 WTC bombing was part of the conspiracy, as well as the USS Cole bombing in 2000? Do you think that the government staged these events which would eventually lead to the grand finale that was 9/11?
Don't forget the London bombings.. they have Blair and Bush written all over them.. oh yes and the dead Russia children in the school in Russia just over a year ago. All Bush's fault with his lap dog Blair. These conspiracy theorists are not thinking, logical people. Hey, the Tsuami is Bush's fault too.
Great points rtf!
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:55 am |
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Quote: Originally Posted by Bushwacker Sorry to burst your bubble matey,but I AM NOT anti-American,my wife is an american with similar view,all that I am against is the cover up that the US government is hiding behind to deceive and distort the truth from hard working citizens like yourself and my wife who also pays taxes,we want the truth is that too much to ask..I would say that for most of us,if we knew for sure then we wouldnt be here debating this...until then,bizzarely,there is still a bad smell lingering around the white house... next
You may not be anti-american, but your words are. There has been no proof or suggestions of any cover up or distortions of the truth, except by left wing loonies. The simple fact is when you don't like the answer or actions of the government your only recourse is to cry "cover up" and not deal with the truth of the matter there is none. Bush has been the most honest President since his father and he has not gone back on any promises. Until there is documented proof of any lies I think people like you on the left should shut up and bear the pain of the simple truth.. you are wrong.. your out of power.. deal with it! You and people like you really do look ridiculous crying the same old lies from the leftist playbook. It is like a child who believes in Santa Claus. It may make them feel good believing he exists, but it just aint so.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:49 am |
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he is right. you are all idiots for your distrust. go home. damn skeptics. let him win. just dont ever sell your freedoms for security in the name of freedom.
I think we should close this thread. A new one will reopen soon.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 10:31 am |
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Quote: Originally Posted by ADBox he is right. you are all idiots for your distrust. go home. damn skeptics. let him win. just dont ever sell your freedoms for security in the name of freedom.
I think we should close this thread. A new one will reopen soon. We're not here to "win" these pathetic arguments. We're here to truly inform the public so they can make informed and educated opinions about what really happened in 9/11. If you think this is a game, then your motivations are truly misplaced and your opinion is not worth divulging.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 11:06 am |
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Quote: Originally Posted by Betamanmn There has been no proof or suggestions of any cover up or distortions of the truth, except by left wing loonies... A small caveat here... There MAY have been a distortion of the truth from the U.S. government, but if so it was most likely unintentional. If it was an intentional misrepresentation by the government, then left wing loonies MIGHT have a point, but the burden of proof lies with these loonies to prove such intentional deception by the government exists.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 2:33 am |
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Quote: Originally Posted by rtf We're not here to "win" these pathetic arguments. We're here to truly inform the public so they can make informed and educated opinions about what really happened in 9/11. If you think this is a game, then your motivations are truly misplaced and your opinion is not worth divulging.
but some of you make no point besides "this is so dumb... i cant believe you would think such a thing, [believe it, they do]." These "individuals" make no contribution to the topic itself. you just rhetoricly bash others credibility in attempt to "sway" the general audience of this webforum (which are people who dont even post). You act like propaganda pooping agents trying to control public opinion, and whats so bad about it is that you could actually be those. I have met fbi agents online many times in many different taboo scenarious and they just spend there day being friendly (and taking names/ip addy's).
if you were good at "truly informing the public" then there would be less argument on the threads. There would be more "oh ok's...." and "but then what about this?" in which you would offer some INFORMATION not DECIMATION.
and quit calling people loonies *******.(im trying to say be pleasant.)
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 5:53 am |
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Quote: Originally Posted by scammerssuck which hits the nail on the head with the middle easterner mindset. And he is so right, my whole life from my mom's arab friends they would always say "jews this , jews that, jews, jews, jews" (I'm refering to them talking about Isreal and just to clarify my family is Christian not Jewish). It's like what year and place are you living in?? 1934 Germany? Conspiracy beliefs are huge in the arab culture, just ask them.
Isn't that ironic, well I guess the conspiracy crowd on this board would probually say, the american govnt are the real terrorists Without even flinching. Not realizing the irony and similarity that view has with islamo fascist terrorist extremists in the middle east. Oh geeze now i've done it, No guys I'm saying your the same, just pointing out the possible similarities with that statement and their view, don't go balistic on that statement. Thats whats great about USA, we can both have extremist views but know we can still be good neighbors.
This is the exact reason looking at the big picture and realizing the whole mindset of the middle east must be changed through democracy and individuals having an input into their governments. Historically the Middle East has been ruled by tyrants and kings causing a culture that creates conspiracies, victimization ("it is the U.S. fault not ours"), and desperation. This is what George Bush wisely understands and why it was necessary to take out Saddam. The opportunity to create real, necessary change through a justified course of action was too important to miss and Bush would have been negligent to not take this opportunity to plant the seed of democracy in this region. It is not and has not been easy but we are moving in the right direction. Iraqis coming out to vote and risk their lives prove this. Nothing worthwhile is easy and most things worthwhile take sacrifice. Changing the Middle East is worthwhile not only for the world and for U.S. safety, but also for the people of the Middle East.
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